Why Jodi Arias will get a new trial (October 20)

Why Jodi Arias must have, and will get, a New Trial

Factual Reporting by

Amanda Chen and Rob Roman

WARNING: Graphic Crime Scene and Autopsy Photos!

may be disturbing to some people!

sherry stephens 1
joe and jan
juan and horshack
arias jurors

Jodi Arias must and will get a new trial. No matter if you think she is guilty or innocent or anywhere between the two. Jodi Arias, no different than you or I, has a constitutional right to a fair trial. This should not stand and the higher courts or the U.S. Supreme Court should reverse the conviction and remand the case back to court for a new trial. Her are the reasons why this was not a fair trial.

 

  1. Doctor Horn was called to the stand 3 different times and on all 3 occasions he answered the persistent questioning of prosecutor Juan Martinez about the order of injuries. It is very unusual and curious to be called to the stand at different times to testify about the same thing.
  1. Doctor Horn stated over and over again that the gunshot was last and probably post mortem.
  1. The reasons he gave were:

               a)      No blood was found at the wound entrance (the blood had been washed off of the victim).

               b)      There was no blood found in the wound tract in the brain. Horn also testified that no wound tract was found in the brain. (How can you testify to what is or is not in a wound tract that you did not find?)

               c)      The bullet entered the skull and must have gone through the brain because the brain butts up against the skull. (This is not true. Travis Alexander was shot right above the orbital cavity and through the nasal cavity, it is very possible for a .25 bullet to not enter the brain at all.)

               d)     The shock wave caused by the hot gasses from the gunshot would cause immediate incapacitation. (Not if the wound tract doesn’t enter the brain. Even if the wound tract did enter the brain, the tract would be mere fractions of an inch.)

               e)      According to Dr. Horn, the medical report meant to say that the outer membrane of the brain was penetrated. But, he said there was a typographical error and the report said it was not penetrated. (There just happens to be a “typo” right at the point where the report is discussing whether or not the brain was penetrated.  What a coincidence!) Also when any M.E. reports penetration of the outer membrane of the brain, the report then goes on to describe this penetration, the size the direction, etc. This lends credence to the accusation that the “typo” is no typo at all.

               f)       There was no blood found in the wound tract (The wound tract goes straight through the nasal cavity. In the shower crime scene photo, there is clearly a large accumulation of blood below the victim’s nostrils.

ta nose light

A large amount of blood under the nose, not much blood coming out the mouth.

4. Dr. Horn tried to remain truthful while giving deceptive testimony, but he has clearly lied. It’s evident that by asking about the order of injuries so many times, that Juan Martinez clearly coordinated this effort with Dr. Horn to sway the jury with false testimony. (For more information, please see Spolight on Dr. Kevin Horn, Spotlight on Juan Martinez, Spotlight on the Jodi Arias Trial)

5. Detective Flores testified that the order of injuries changed from gun first to gun last when prosecutor Juan Martinez asked Detective Flores to meet with Dr. Horn to discuss possible aggravating circumstances for the death penalty.

6. Travis Alexander was left in the shower with his left side facing out. If the victim was shot last, it must have been as he was lying motionless on the bathroom floor. So why is the shot such a badly placed shot? Also in order for a shot to be made at this angle, the barrel of the gun needs to be around 8 to 12 inches off the floor. This is not a reasonable or natural position.

7. If Alexander went to the sink after suffering the deep incised wounds to his left hand, blood would be pouring out from his left hand and the sink would be covered with blood on the left side. There is none of this on the left side of the sink. This contradicts the prosecution theory that Travis Alexander was stabbed in the shower. This reinforces the defense theory and casts doubt on premeditation.

ta left hand 3 lightFrom the official autopsy report:

“A deep 1 ½ inch incised wound across the left thenar eminence (palmar with extension onto the dorsal left hand) with deep penetration and partial severing of the musculature and tendons of the thumb base.”

“A 1 ¾ inch incised wound of the palmar webbing between the left thumb and index finger, with an adjacent separate ¾ inch linear incised wound.”

“A 1 inch incised wound across the dorsal surface of the distal inter-philangeal joint of the left thumb.”

ta left hand 1 light

Deep incised wounds on Alexander’s left hand

jurors pus

Little blood on left side of the sink

8. Shooting someone post mortem is the infliction of “gratuitous violence”. This perfectly fits the requirements for the Heinousness and the Depravity prongs of the “especially heinous, cruel and depraved” aggravator. Incredibly, Arias was only charged with the cruelty prong of the aggravator.

9. Felony murder does not in any way apply to this case if the gun was last. If the gun was first, and Travis was wounded, prompting Arias to switch to a knife to kill Alexander to cover up her presence in the home, then this is the only way that Felony murder could possibly, technically fit this case.

10. Dr. Horn was involved in two other cases. One was a wrongful prosecution seeking the death penalty. This was a grandmother who owned a day care center where a baby died. The other was a wrongful conviction. This was a self-defense case against a Mormon retired school teacher with 7 children who was attacked on a hiking trail by a man and his two dogs. In both cases the indispensible part of the case was the testimony and the opinion of Dr. Horn. In both cases he was completely wrong.

11. Arias wasn’t charged with the heinous and depraved prongs of the aggravator and the Felony murder charge was not dropped, proving that the prosecution does not actually believe that the gun was last. It also suggests that the prosecution believes that Arias may not have been the only person involved. Yet, the prosecution argued vehemently against both of these possibilities.

12. If Alexander was stabbed first in the shower, there is already water in the shower. The wounds can be seen easily. There is no need to go the bathroom sink and look in the mirror. Alexander must not have known what happened to him, and he must have wanted to find out. How could Alexander turn his back on his attacker and go to the sink in the middle of a knife attack? Even the prosecutor, Juan Martinez, proved at trial that he doesn’t believe this. Yet he persuaded the jury to believe yet another idea that he himself does not believe.

13. If you are a juror and you believe Dr. Horn, then Jodi Arias is guilty of 1st degree premeditated murder. There is no need to even present a defense or any further testimony or evidence. Therefore the testimony of Dr. Horn constitutes reversible error in the case of ArizonaState v. Jodi Ann Arias. Jodi Arias’ constitutional right to a fair trial has been violated. On top of this there are numerous other valid and cogent appealable issues.

 

Other appealable issues include:

  1. The State of Arizona’s cruelty prong of the “especially heinous cruel and depraved” aggravator is in violation of the Eighth Amendment to the United States Constitution because the statute along with the jury instructions are too vague and can be applied to almost any murder and used to target a particular defendant with the Death Penalty.
  1. The possibility that the jury was tainted by the omnipresent media coverage which was almost impossible to avoid. The jury should have been sequestered. Evidence exists that jurors discussed the case outside court and perhaps on social media. A juror stated that the jury was 12 – 0 for the guilty verdict at the very beginning of deliberations.
  1. The possibility that the jury did not understand jury instructions, for which direct evidence appears on video.
  1. Prosecutorial misconduct throughout the case and the trial. There is direct video evidence that Juan Martinez lied more than once during the commutation hearing of Robert Towery, in order to secure his execution. The prosecutor purposely tampered with evidence during the trial (dropped the camera). The prosecutor deliberately withheld evidence until just before the scheduled start of the trial. The prosecutor suborned perjury in the testimony of Dr. Kevin Horn.
  1. Possible evidence favorable to the defense which was not provided to the defense or allowed into trial (exculpatory).
  1. Possible evidence favorable to the prosecution which should not have been allowed into trial (more prejudicial than probative).
  1. The judge failed to control the courtroom, allowing such things as the victim’s family’s purposeful, non-verbal communication with the jury throughout the trial. This can be seen in process on many trial videos.
  1. Witness intimidation perpetrated by the family and friends of the victim. One witness was called before the trial began and threatened if he testified for the defense. The witness was called shortly after the prosecutor released a list of potential defense witnesses to the victim’s family.

There is anecdotal evidence that other witness on the list were successfully intimidated into refusing to testify. An Alexander family member was involved in threats and intimidation of Alyce LaViolette during and after her testimony. Dave Hall slandered defense mitigation witness Patty Womack on National television after she and her family were threatened and intimidated in the social media.

If the higher courts find even a single one of these factors to be true, Jodi Arias may get a new trial. We contend that all these factors are true. Even Hannibal Lecter or Charles Manson has the right to a fair trial. Whether or not she got the result you desire or whether she deserves the verdicts makes no difference.

If these verdicts are allowed to stand, we are all at risk of having our constitutional rights violated in the future. No one who watched this trial should be able to say it was a fair trial. Did you see the emotion shown by Judge Sherry Stephens at the end of the first penalty phase? This is reason for a new trial right there. The judge is clearly prejudiced towards the prosecution and a death sentence. The jury did not reach a unanimous decision, so what? What was that display of emotion for? Maybe it should be mandatory in a capital case that the defense must provide an independent autopsy and Medical Examination.

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Unlike many blogs, all comments are accepted and will be posted

73 thoughts on “Why Jodi Arias will get a new trial (October 20)”

  1. Its shameful that Maricopa County court is nothing but a Kangaroo court still in the Middle Ages. Its shameful that people who are out for
    revenge who have such a hatred for a woman they don’t know, can see all the corruption (there’s evidence) and yet are crying out for Jodi to
    be executed. Judge Stevens cried when they death sentence wasn’t unanimous, everyone saw that. A crying Judge in a DP case? Yet these same people think Jodi had a fair trial? Really? Not if they were the defendant, they wouldn’t. These people are rabid savages, hungry for death, and if the defendant happens to be a beautiful and intelligent young woman, so much the better. I shall never ever forget watching the trial, I was shocked continuously. And I remain shocked at how such people can continue to mount such a vendetta of hatred – for someone they don’t even know, how they state, this/that happened, as fact, when they’re making it up to fit so they can argue with others; were they there? Where is the evidence for what they state as fact? Does their lust for Jodi to be murdered over-ride the fact they are looking ridiculous to others? Yes. How can they look at proven evidence and still deny it in favour of red herrings?

    1. I was also continuously shocked during the trial. I hope the higher courts are also shocked by the goings on. I think some people will be really shocked when the conviction is reversed. I can’t imagine that it will not. They should show the video right in the appeals court! The most shocking was Sherry Stephens reaction to no unanimous decision! Was she also going to party with the victim’s family?

      1. I think none of this would of happen if she took zxprexa.. 10mg and klonopin 2mg. Let’s give her another chance to take ” meds” I’m sure Travis’s family could and would give her a hug and high 5 ✊

    2. Heather4u2, you couldn’t have said it better. The facts and the evidence were supressed in this trial. The real “fog” of speculation and fantasy was constantly rising from the prosectuion’s table and drifting into the jury box.

    1. By American standards, this trial was a too much even for Hollywood. It’s an embarrassment on video for the world to see. It is just incredible to see not just this trial, but what has been going on in Arizona, Maricopa, for years and yearIs.

      This ia something I would expect to see in an old Western Movie. Circumstantial evidence is sometimes more reliable than direct evidence, Arizona prosecutors have a history of hiding evidence, losing evidence, changing evidence, lying about evidence, and blocking evidence from being presented in court.

    2. Jamoroki, this is not only about an unfair trial, but also about the strange atmosphere and unusual practices that have occured in Maricopa County and Arizona State generally. Jaw dropping is exactly what happened to us as we have researched the facts.

  2. I thought I was watching a Saturday Night Live skit once Juan Martinez took center stage. Definitely, no defendant in the history of America deserves a new trial more than Jodi Ann Arias! The good thing is that because of Jodi, Juan Martinez may well get his well-deserved comeuppance!

    1. I saw you wrestling with posters on Michael Kiefer’s article. I saw you Tweeting with some people. I haven’t quite figured out Tweeting.

      I had a chat with “Edie” about the so-called “throat slash” videos. One is right after victim’s impact statements by Samantha and Steven Alexabder. Jodi was wiping away tears. The other is so subtle, just an innocent gesture.

      I saw you chatting with Ms. Monkman, who is the sister of a murdered woman in Arizona named Cynthia Apelt. But this was a conspiracy, two killers, three aggravating factors, a past history directly related to the crime, and a money motive (400k). That’s very different from the Arias case.

      I think Juan Martinez is happy right where he is, the Monty Hall of showcase death penalty cases. (or the Jerry Springer if you wil).l

      1. Yes, Rob, I did banter a bit with Ms. Monkman. Her story was new to me. Although after she kept reminding me of the story of her own tragic loss of her sister, her story is not so new to me anymore. I find her hatred of Jodi and love for Travis and family an even deeper “second hand hate” if you will. She has now transferred that hate to Michael Kiefer, it seems! Someone who seems to have been an important and effectual chronicler of her tragedy for many years, and yet Jodi’s trial has wiped away all that, from what I can tell. Edie is just…scary and disturbing. Yes, Monty or Jerry! Although, I like them both…Hmm….Juan should maybe consider a future career as a game show host? He may need a backup plan now that the “spotlight” is shining on his….backside?

        I tweet inconsistently (and comment that way, too). I jump in and blurt out at times. I mis-tweet or don’t tweet fast enough, and tweet sometimes to tweets written weeks ago, ha! It’s all very dangerous, exciting, and strangely compelling!

      2. I have not seen Michael Kiefer articles that are slanted. These are facts and he lays them out. I wonder who told the Alexanders which writers were “for” or “against”. If you have the facts and truth on you side, there is nothing to fear. So, Nurmi was right when he pointed out the fear of the prosecution.

        I always see Juan as the camp leader, telling ghost and goblin tales around the campfire and hoping the little kiddies willpiss themselves.

    2. I agree, my eyes were out on stalks in disbelief that this was happening and I was screaming obscenities at the computer screen; I’m sure I would have been sectioned if anyone had heard me, even I didn’t recognise myself, I was that angry! My heart broke for Jodi. JM behaved like a man possessed, he was rabid. There’s nothing I would like better than to witness JM getting his cumuppance, it has to come, surely AZ can only take so much egg on its face when the whole world has witnessed such blatant corruption.

  3. I too, firmly believe Jodi Arias should receive a new trial, with the current conviction turned over. The entire trial was a mockery, and it’s well known that the Prosecution side will do whatever it takes to win the trial. To them, it’s more of a “I’m the best prosecutor in the world…look at me”! It’s just a job to them…no one wants a prosecutor who can’t win cases…! JM changed the story, he made up 99.9% of what happened…! It always seems that which ever side has the best “influencing prosecutor”, the one that doesn’t make you fall asleep, and the one with the most flair, usually wins the case. This is what happened to Jodi in her case.

    1. Yes, Vicki, I remember thinking during the trial that the loudness and the dramatics did keep the jury awake. He’s also appealing to the emotional “left brain” where logic is sometimes shut out.

      Your comment made me think of the movie “Gladiator”, where they said that the new Emperor would be loved for providing the masses with all the games of death.

      Like a bullfight, the matador gets the crowd to go wild with blood-lust, almost hypnotized. All the jury must do is stick in the final sword. Juan Martinez did it inside the courtroom and HLN did it outside the courtroom.

      Juan Martinez, as usual, had a very strong case. As usual, Juan Martinez felt he needed to get an extra advantage for himself. So, as usual, he lied. He set up the lie about the order of injuries to ensure he would prevail.

      He has made a gigantic error. He thought he would get away clean with it, but his bluff has been called. It will take time and money and perserverance, but ultimately the truth will be made known.

      Thanks for your comment and it’s nice to meet you.

    1. Dr. Horn was like a deer in the headlights! In fact, I’m sure I have some screenshots somewhere of that very pose! I think his demeanor also changed markedly between his first time on the stand, and his last. But he’s kinda cute, for a guy who plays with dead bodies all day.

  4. I don’t think anyone really understands how to tweet…I think twitter is like electricity..it’s just there, so instead of trying to figure it out, I just use it… 🙂

    1. I see how it can be learn as you go. There’s some stuff in there that I don’t know what it is. Some codes and stuff.

      I started by following Flavor Flav, just to see how it works. Why Flavor Flav? Because he tweets his every step.

  5. I just have to wonder…I’ve seen many comments about how cute dr horn is…that’s actually true. However, I just have to wonder what would have happened if dr horn was a short, bald man, very much over weight…could there have been a difference in the outcome??? Possibly!!!

    1. The girls love him! People tend to believe and trust an MD, medical examiner no matter what (unless his name is Dr. Shipping Bao). That’s the problem. The defense did not forsee there would be a dispute over the order of injuries until after they spent their budget on experts and had done all their investigation.

  6. You claim that the reason there was no blood at around the gun shot wound is because the blood had been washed off the body, but there is clearly blood coming from his nose. Did she only wash his for head? That makes absolutely no sense that she would wash the gun shot wound but not wash his nose. Also the way he was positioned in the shower the gun shot wound have been harder to wash because it was on the other side of his head that was facing the floor.

    1. Mayo, Thank-You for your comment.

      You have only furthered my point. All the blood was washed off of the victim with the help of a cup which was found in the shower with the victim. The cup was taken form the cabinet under the bloody sink and you can see the cup in the shower and the open door of the sin in crime scene photos.

      This includes the copious amount of blood that must have been flooding out of the victim’s nostrils. If you saw the autopsy photos, all the blood you see seeped from wounds after the body was washed.

      So, the blood under his nose was much more originally, and the origin is the nose and not the mouth.

      Since she used the cup, the left side and the right side are equally accessible.

      1. I don’t believe using a cup will make accessing the left and right side equal. Tilt your head to one side and try using a cup to poor water in the ear towards the floor.

        Also, if he was shot first the bullet wound would be bleeding the longest out of all the wounds. I still don’t understand how the bullet hole would be washed clean but not the nose?

      2. Photographs show a static, non-moving environment. In reality, time and forces such as liquids, chemistry, and gravity act upon the body.

        There’s no reason to believe that the photo of how the body was found is the same position it was in at the time the body was placed in the shower.

        The bullet wound tract goes from a 1/8 inch hole in the skin to a 1/4 inch hole in the skull, through the orbital and nasal cavity, ending at the left jaw. The blood would flow with gravity, right out the nose.

      3. Your right she could have had the body in a different position once she had him in the shower. However, if you believe he was shot first he moved around a lot from the time he was shot until the time he was in that shower, and I’m sorry but gravity would not prevent the gunshot wound from bleeding out at the point it penetrated his forehead. Also, the autopsy states the wound on his forehead and the wound of the skull are bother 1/8 inch. I’m not sure where you saw they were different. So, I still don’t understand how it is that the bullet hole in his forehead could have been washed completely clean but his nose still have so much blood. Once he was in the shower he was already dead so both the nose and the forehead would have stopped bleeding at the same time. One last thing, if the bullet followed the trajectory you claim many of the bones would have evidence of have a projectile pass through such as the orbital and the many bones in the nasal cavity.

      4. Mayo, the bullet itself is .25 caliber, which means it’s 1/4 or .25 inches in diameter. The hole through the skin is recorded at .125 inch 1/8 inch in the autopsy, because skin is elastic. The hole through the skull must be 1/4 inch and the exit through the skull is usually bigger than the entrance wound.

        There is no dispute that the bullet went through the orbital and nasal cavities. If you have a small hole on top and a larger hole on the bottom, which way does the blood flow? Sure there was plenty of blood from out the 1/8 inch hole above the eyebrow, I guess, but I’m sure it was washed away and drained internally.

        What is under Travis’ nose didn’t bleed out, it seeped out. Look at the autopsy photos. Some stab wound have no blood at all. Others have seepage. The stab wounds are 1 1/2 inches across with no blood, yet you expect to see blood from a .125 inch hole?

        Some people claim that the bullet knocked a hole in the skull then went through the skin into the nasal cavity without entering the skull, if you believe that, then I won’t dispute you.

      5. If the blood under his nose seeped out as you claim gravity would have caused the seeping to flow sideways since his head was tilted on its side. I don’t have a problem with the body wounds not having blood because it is easier for me to believe someone could wash a body without washing the head. However, it is hard for me to believe that if she washed his head how she could complete clean off the bullet wound but yet the blood on the nose remained. On top of all you do not have to blood around a wound to know if the wound was made post mortem or while the victim was still alive. You are able to see signs of blood flow or no blood flow to the area around the wound by viewing the wound itself. I also believe the bullet hole in the skull was smaller the the original .25 inch of the bullet because the bullet fragmented before entering through the skull/ That is why there is the bullet fragment that was shown on the x-ray…

      6. I have not found any photos of the bullet wound prior to autopsy, you? Yet we know they must have them.

        You are correct about the bullet fragment at the entrance wound. In 5 days, why can’t the blood under the nose dry up before the body slumped over?

        If you believe the blood under the nose was never washed off and the hole in the skull is smaller, how does that support your theory or undermine mine? What about the wounds to the left hand? Blood would be pouring out, yet the left side of the sink shows sparse blood?

        By your reasoning, some of the knife wounds must be post-mortem also, since there is no blood. Of course, it’s easy to wash the back and not the nose or the head. I don’t get that, but I won’t dispute you on that.

        You’re the only one I ever heard claim that the water wasn’t running in the shower while Travis was taking a shower, even though all the shower photos suggest that the water was running, but that’s a small point.

        What about letters b, c, d, e and f of section 1 and the 11 other reasons why I believe the gun was first?

        Please provide a link to the photo you have of the bullet wound prior to autopsy and I will look at it.

        I’m sure there will be plenty of bullet wounds from living people I can find that will look the same as Travis’ bullet wound, if we can locate the photo of the bullet wound.

      7. I have not seem any photos of the bullet wound prior to autopsy, but that is more due to the fact I have a hard time viewing the photos of his face. My argument was based more on your response to Horn stating there was no blood at the entry wound. Horn claims it is because the gun shot was postmortem, you claimed it was because the body was washed. So I was wondering how you believed the gun shot was washed clean of blood, but yet the nose still had so much blood underneath it. Your seeping theory doesn’t really make a lot of sense because the nose is mostly cartilage and there is very little tissue blood could seep from to come out the nose like in the picture postmortem..

        You also state that the reason the blood is seen coming straight down his nose is because originally Travis was in the shower in the upright position and over time his head slumped to the side……However his neck was cut so deep it could no longer support the head in an upright position. SO, the blood seen coming from Travis’s nose was there prior to Jodi washing any of the wounds. SO again I ask how do you believe she washed the bullet wound without washing the blood under his nose…..

        On a separate note, my thoughts on the shower water being on… Travis was not showering at the time this altercation took place. He was posing for pictures, I believe the shower was on at some point, but I don’t think it can be assumed that it was on at the time that this incident began. Is it possible it was on…. Sure, but it is not a concrete fact that there is proof of so I don’t think we can just assume it was to help make theoretical situation sounds legit.

      8. I can understand your sensitivity to seeing the photos, they are truly awful. I have not found any photo of the bullet wound until autopsy, where the victim has been washed off, including under the nose..

        There is seepage form many of the wounds. The seepage from some knife wounds is in accord with gravitational forces suggesting that he was in the position he was found in for some time, yet I don’t believe it is the same position he was left in on June 4th.

        As his head being able to be straight up and down, I don’t know. Let’s assume the objective of washing the body was to remove fingerprints and/or blood of the perpetrator. If so, then it’s completely possible she would not bother to wash the face if there may have been no prints and none of her blood there.

        I don’t know how long it takes blood to congeal, but I assume he was back in the shower within minutes of his demise.

        There were some serious wounds to the scalp, and there is no blood there. Likewise, there are other serious incised wounds, and they were washed clean, although seepage of some kind occurred afterwards.

        I can accept that the water was not running, although all the shower photos show wetness and we know that the floor was flooded with water.

        The blood could easily be there from before he was washed as you say. I’m saying that this blood came from the wound tract made by the bullet through his nose. I assume you are saying the blood under his nose came from his lungs or esophagus upwards to his mouth and nose. I don’t see blood coming out his mouth, and that is my original point.

        I don’t want to get lost in the “seepage” idea, but your cartilage and tissue statement perplexes me because I would say that the blood under his nose came from the wound tract made by the bullet through his nose.

        Not washing the blood under his nose does not exclude that the blood from the entry wound could have been washed off, as water washes off blood in my experience. I am not in the medical field and I don’t pretend to be. So Dr. Horn stated that there was no blood at the entry wound? Okay, but that doesn’t preclude that there was blood there at some point.

        As for not being able to hold his head up, I don’t know about that, but I assume he could be propped up in a way that would hold his head up.

        Again with the shower water being on, I never heard anyone say it wasn’t on, and it’s interesting. I never contemplated that. Still, the closest water supply is the shower although I get your point that the victim would be wanting to get out of the enclosure of the shower in a hurry. However, this doesn’t change the theoretical situation for me.. Maybe we both like puzzles.

        We didn’t create these articles for people who believe in Jodi Arias. We wrote them hoping people like you would question them, so I really appreciate your ideas.

      9. Sorry I didn’t address your questions about the knife wounds on his hands… He could have easily received more knife wounds to his hands after he stood at the sink. We know the he didn’t die at the sink he died at the end of the bathroom hall way so he could have got the additional hand wounds along the way. I believe there is a swipe of blood along the sink so I think he did have some injury to a hand at that time.

      10. Okay. His right hand had a ¼ inch incised wound to the back of his thumb. That could be the source at the sink. He could have been to the right of the sink at an angle, and the blood on the right could be from his left hand. The blood on the right could also be form his right hand after he was holding his head where the entry wound is, and this is my belief.

        I tend to think that the defensive wounds to the hands and all the wounds to his chest and abdomen came at the same time. Not necessarily so, of course. That poor little 2 year-old girl, Sasha Rae Jackson, had the same defensive wounds when her 13 year-old sister Ty’asia stabbed her to death. So I think this is instinctive behavior.

        I agree that some of the knife wounds could have been after he was at the sink. I believe he had no knife wounds at the sink.

        Keep in mind that the gunshot first theory is shared by many people on both sides. The gun first could be murder or it could be something else. If it could be proven to me beyond a reasonable doubt that the gunshot was last, the case is over for me. This would be first degree murder and the sentence of life in prison would be appropriate, IMO.

      11. Before I start to contemplate your response I just wanted to takea minute and say I appreciate being able to discuss these issues with someone from the other side of the fence without our opinions turning into personal attacks and it turning ugly. I don’t know how much longer we have to discuss before others begin to chime in with personal attacks and/or insults, but I’ll enjoy our peaceful discussion while it last, because I am truly enjoying your insight thus far.

      12. I was thinking the same. Personal attacks don’t get anyone anywhere. I don’t do personal attacks. We have an article here that even says not to do it. I enjoy talking to you. I only get a handful of comments, and I expected to be attacked, but it never happened.

        I’m open minded, and I totally respect and understand people who have a different view. We have studied this case very seriously. So, I had the same feeling, and I have really enjoyed this.

        I tried to respond to some blogs that were pro-prosecution, and they would not post my response. That really bothered me. So, we state that any and all opinions are welcome and we will post all comments.

      13. Shoot I wrote this response last night and I must have turned off my computer before I posted it. I was curious to see if you had responded to it but I guess not since you didn’t get a chance to even see it. Anyways here goes…

        I was looking for some information to help explain what signs an ME can look for to distinguish the difference between a antemortem and postmortem wound on a body, when I stumbled upon this.

        Purge fluid is foul smelling, red-brown fluid that may exude from the oral and nasal passages as decomposition progresses, as depicted in the image below. It often flows after pressure is exerted on the body, either from the presence of gases that result from internal decomposition or following manipulation of the body. Purge fluid may simulate antemortem hemorrhage, but no traumatic injuries will be detected at autopsy.

        I think it would explain why the gun shot wound and other wounds were washed off, yet his nose seemed not to have been.. I think his nose does have this purge fluid that came out after he began to decompose. What is also interesting is that fluid would be present without any trauma like from the trajectory you believe the bullet traveled.

      14. Yes, this is what is coming out of the various wounds to the victim and this was testified to at trial. The controlling idea is that it flows, and I see it flowing from other wounds, but not from the nose, where it appears congealed. So, I say it is different. Ha Ha.

        And it’s not the trajectory I believed the bullet traveled, it’s the trajectory the bullet did travel, as testified to by Dr. Horn.

      15. Oh goody! I used to be very, very sensitive to such things. When I first saw a movie about the Manson murders, I was terrified for weeks, looking under the bed etc. for a crazed mass murderer.

        Now I am more scientific about things, I guess.

        Thanks for the link, will enjoy taking a look.

      16. I believe his served neck would impede the “flowing” process that usually takes place. Since its a build up of gasses that cause the purging of the fluids it quite possibly might have been a one time build up that caused the purge out his nose and then the addition flow that would have came out his nasal and oral cavity might have seeped out his neck instead.

      17. That’s totally possible. I would have to study some serious biology. I did see the flowing out of some wounds but not others. I believe the wounds that extend into the body cavity are the ones to do this.

        Your explanation seem logical.

      18. l kind of feel like most people who believe Jodi to be guilty is based more on the premeditation more so then the sequence of events of the actual killing. our take on the actual bullet that was recovered. I am curious about how some people have come to the conclusion that the bullet recovered was not a hollow point and I’m wondering how they seem to know that as if it’s a fact. I thought that hollow points are known to fragment and the bullet obviously fragmented. So I’m confused onthat

      19. The case against Scott Peterson involves no crime scene. It is also largely circumstantial. Yet, Peterson was convicted using hundreds and hundreds of pieces of interlocking circumstantial evidence extending form when Scott met Laci, to Scott’s behavior after her disappearance.

        Yet Jodi is convicted on her use of a stolen gun that cannot be proven beyond doubt, gas cans which many people utilize in the desert, a secret mission, and alibi, which if it was an alibi could never have been meant to be secret, a license plate and a CD. All have reasonable innocent explanations.

        We know that the stolen gun was loaded with 8 hollow point .25 caliber bullets. The gun may have been a Raven, a back in the day low cost .25 gun that was tremendously popular.

        The shell casing found was a “Winchester .25 Auto”. Jodi’s Grandfather did not have that brand of Ammo. It’s not in the photos of the ammo and if he did, they would have been sure to present that in court. The prosecution never entered into evidence the type of bullet, which they surely know, leading to suspicion that it was a round nose bullet.

        Both bullet types fragment and both deform. But the hollow point will deform to a lager diameter and will fragment more than what is shown in the recovered bullet. No gun expert has come forward in the media or social media to claim it is a hollow point.

      20. In the police report her grandfather made about the stolen gun he stated he received the gun with the bullets in it which would explain why there was no addition bullets in his home.

        I’m wondering if there was not much to stated about the bullet because without the gun there is no way to determine the condition it would have left the different type of bullets fired from it. Maybe the condition of the gun caused it to fired the bullet with less velocity causing a hollow point bullet to not act like a typical hollow point would..

        The license plate thing to me and this is strickly my opinion simply because I live and CA, but here we have a lot of bridge toll ways and at the toll booths they have license plate scanning technology, that is able to take a picture of your license, read it and store the info of a car based on the license plate #. A upside down license plate would not be a to be read.
        As far as the gas cans, I could understand the whole ” Desert theory” if she was planning on going to the desert. She was planning on traveling on a major highway . SHe was not planning on going into the desert.. 1 gas can would have given her plenty of gas to get to the nearest gas station should she have got lost and ran out of gas. Why so many cans and why would she say she had them to save on gas but then she filled them in CA.

      21. You’re bringing up things I never heard anyone talk about! What you said about the bullets is fascinating. I can buy that explanation. The bottom line is that I know that the prosecution knows what type of bullet it is. They never brought it up. The defense maybe was a afraid to ask, because if the prosecution showed it was a hollow point, then that would have hurt their client.

        Good point. License plate scanning technology. Toll booths! I don’t know, but I doubt Arizona has them, and Jodi knows the route and what’s there. The thing about the plate is, if you are worried about getting pulled over, the last thing you want is an upside down plate. You will get pulled over for sure, and that’s exactly what happened. Who rents a car and then has a problem with plates? It’s suspicious, to be sure.

        If she was worried about getting stuck in the desert, then it would make sense to fill them in CA on the way out, and save money on the way back. It was June, and if stuck you could die or be at the mercy of whoever came by. Jodi is not a long term meticulous planner like Scott Peterson. She may have planned to do something off highway.

        Buying the 3rd can is suspicious. There is someone I saw on a show who did use this method to sneak to her ex-husband’s home and kill him. The gas cans are the toughest thing in the premeditation ensemble.

      22. What if maybe she turned the license plate upside down near Utah wanting to get pulled over somewhere along that route so she could use that as an additional alibi to say she was in Utah not Arizona.

        The defense would have had plenty of access to analyze the bullet prior to the trial starting, that is what makes me extra suspicious about it not being discussed. If they were able to determine that it was not a hollow point surely they would have brought it up don’t you think?

        Jodi wasn’t going camping through the desert she was traveling on a highway that she had traveled on several times. A highway that has a gas station like every 20 -30 miles. I’m not sure where your from but out here in CA and the major freeways connecting to NV and AZ there literally are freeway exits strictly for a gas stations and/ or truck stops. If she would have filled up one gas can I could definitely understand that, but all the extra gas she got was unnecessary. Unless she didn’t want to stop in AZ for gas.

        Buying the 3rd gas can is not only suspicious, but what do you make of her returning it. Do you believe she actually returned it

      23. Yes, I have thought of that. There are better ways to get pulled over. She could have removed the plate and pit in inside the car. That works better than turning it upside-down.

        Neither side brought up the bullet. I think the Prosecution has an upper hand when it comes to forensic evidence. The Defense eschewed forensic evidence. I think that wasn’t their forte. This is big, because many people believe that the forensics show that the Peosecution’s theory is wrong.

        I’m an East coaster. Amanda is in San Fran. She doesn’t drive, though. I’m from upstate New York, 90minutes from the city. Now enjoying the Florida weather. I’ve heard this California argument before. Jodi Arias is a strange person. She is not a planner, but she wings it and is very spontaneous. Who knows what her paln was before she detoured to Mesa?

        Jodi was very open about the gas cans she borrowed. So why would she make a big deal about just the third? Why would she insist on saying she returned it when she didn’t? More importantly, why would her attorneys allow her to make that statement? The case si complicated and somehow, that slipped by. We never heard Jodi’s answer to no records being found. Maybe she’ll enlighten us at the 2nd penalty phase.

        If she was so meticulous about her alibi and wanting to get caught by the police, she should have not waited 13 hours to kill Alexander right at rush hour, when the most witnesses would be out and about?

  7. Also, In your #12 you state:

    If Alexander was stabbed first in the shower, there is already water in the shower. The wounds can be seen easily. There is no need to go the bathroom sink and look in the mirror.

    He was in the shower taking pictures so at the time he was stabbed you have no idea if the water was actually on or not… If the water was not on I believe #12 is no longer applicable.

    1. Mayo McChess, interesting moniker!

      I believe that the water was on during the shower, as Travis was taking a shower. Even if the water were off, the closest source is still the shower faucet. The water is on during the photos, you can see it in the photos.

      1. I don’t see the water as being on during the photos. It’s clear the water was definitely on at one point, but he wasn’t taking a shower at the time the photos were taken he was posing for the photos. Also, if you were just stabbed are you going to stay in a small confined space to wash off your wound or are you going to try and get out of the small confined area to the more open bathroom where you can try and get some distance between you and the knife coming at you.. He might have gone to the sink area because he was feeling weak and was leaning on the counter while looking at his wounds.

      2. Mayo, I thought it was generally accepted that the shower was running and continued to run during the entire confrontation. If you want to say it was off, I won’t dispute you, but that doesn’t change anything about what I believe.

        As far as getting to the sink, I agree. He could have been using the counter to get to his feet. But if he was stabbed in the shower, which is what the prosecution contends the entire “photo session” was for, to get him trapped in the shower, then you have to explain how he was able to get past Jodi in the middle of a knife attack and go to the sink and turn his back on her?

        Doesn’t it make more sense that Jodi shot him accidentally, and then tried to help him, before things became deadly?

  8. And then the computer wich the defence wanted to see whilst super-trooper JM was saying he didnt have it. And then after defence asked time to look at the computer. JM objected to it by saying that they had 4 years time to do so.

    1. Juan Martinez has a history of withholding evidence. You can be sure there is more evidence here that the defense doesn’t even know about.

      Maricopa County, Arizona has a history of losing evidence, changing evidence, and withholding exculpatory evidence. The famous Miranda rights come from an Arizona case where Miranda was interrogated for an extensive amount of time without access to legal representation.

  9. This post does not read like other writings I’ve seen by Rob Roman, although I see it says Rob co-authored this.

    Can someone please explain what bullet #13 means …that opens with:
    ‘If you are a juror and you believe Dr Horn, then Jodi Arias is guilty of premeditated murder and there is no need for any defense’.

    In this point it goes on to then say, as if the previous sentences justify the next: ‘therefore the testimony of Dr Horn constitutes reversible error and..,’

    HOW so? I don’t understand this point at all.

    I’m just curious. Do you recognize that in order for Arias to succeed in an appeal for a new trial, that it will take more than just attorney argument? Do you agree that ‘experts’ with the same level of education …like Dr Kevin Horn, will need to testify on her behalf in a hearing of appeal and give medical justification to what you say above?
    Capitol defendants facing the Death Penalty in the state of AZ prior to conviction have NO cap on available funds to fight for their life. Did you know that? It’s unconstitutional. Yes, there is an hourly cap provided to the. 1st and 2nd chairs. But there is no cap to hire additional experts in her defense. So if what you are saying has any medical merit whatsoever, why did the defense not have their own medical examiner testify to show how ludicrous the states theory was? It simply makes no sense. I will not accept the very easy excuse I’ve heard that her defense lawyers were not very good or any number of other excuses trying to lay blame on them.

    I believe there is one answer. They could not find a medical examiner to dispute what Dr Horn’s report said OR what he testified to in a defense deposition. As the judge made very clear when her defense asked for a mistrial for the Horn/Flores ‘lying’, motion, she denied it and said her decision was based on the fact SHE knew the attorneys were WELL aware , in advance of the trial (@ least one full year) of Horns opinion on the order of sequence of the injuries sustained because it was the subject of a follow up hearing where Dr Horns deposition by the defense was discussed. Further… It was ALSO addressed by the JUDGE as rationale to her denial in same mistrial motion, that she knew that Nurmi was well aware that Arias’ PREVIOUS defense attorney in the grand jury hearing had strenuously objected to Detective Flores ‘ testimony that Dr Horn told him gunshot was first! Arias’ attorney had objected to this testimony on grounds that Flores was not qualified as a medical doctor and should not be allowed to testify FOR Dr Horn as to sequence BECAUSE it was ALL hearsay. Flores was NOT a doctor.

    The point of ALL of this is the defense knew a full year at LEAST prior to trial what Horn was going to say becs they learned about it in a deposition and also KNEW that anything Flores said a year prior SHOULD NOT be considered reliable.
    This is a shell game.

  10. And shell games NEVER lead to successful appeals.

    But you know what they do lead to?
    More allegations of prosecutorial misconduct.

    I find this kind of defense of Arias in general disturbing. Because if your true goal really is to abolish the Death Penalty, not argue jodi arias’ innocence or guilt, (a cause I find highly admirable and just btw) why you would ever allow yourself to be associated with a shell game is confusing.

  11. They have not executed a female in Arizona since Feb 1930. Jodi Arias will spend the rest of her life in prison for her crimes.

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  13. you all are jokers and twisted sick fucks thats for sure you need your head examined thats for sure.hairyass is guilty of murder in the first degree and she has admitted to the crime in itself on the stand so she really is the killer for sure.was it premeditation yes l believe that.l saw the whole trial everyday with a doubt she is going down .so sorry for all of you for all this bashing it just wont help at this time on the trial.l dont believe she will get a new trial at all.juan martinez has not with held evidence unlike the defense okay so no she wont get a new trial.

    1. Funny to think that being factual is “bashing” to you. What we have said is true regardless of whether Jodi Arias is guilt as charged or not. She admitted she killed him, but that doesn’t prove premeditation. There are some serious irregularities in this trial, and they are all starting to add up. I doubt whether you even read the article, Every defendant has a Constitutional right to a fair trial. I cannot see how you can call this a fair trial. I would certainly support a new trial for Scott Peterson if the higher courts determined he did not get a fair trial, even though I believe he’s as guilty as can be. Maybe you are not being fair?

      1. Rob have you been able to discover if Mesa PD actually did any latent fingerprinting on the shell casing at the scene of the crime to determine if Jodi had planned the murder or not based on her prints being found on the shell casing that would indicate she loaded the magazine? Is there any information about the shell casing having been tested at all for latent fingerprints?

      2. That’s a good question, Dwight. I think if they had her prints on the casing, the prosecution would have brought that up at trial. I wonder if it’s standard procedure to check bullet casings for prints. There was no information on that at trial, but maybe there is something in the motions, if they ever get released.

    2. Stupid monkey. Evidence regarding Jodi and Travis speaking on the phone the night Jodi came to see Travis was withheld because it shows that even though Jodi contacted Travis first the technical aspects of a connected call means that the other person picks up and establishes contact with the person making the call. Since Travis called Jodi back then it was Travis who technically called Jodi first and not Jodi who called Travis first. Besides Travis had called Jodi 11 months earlier wanting phone sex. So Travis was stalking Jodi after they broke up.

  14. Will never happen you fucking idiots!! The stupid bitch parasite arias will never see another trial she will not get the chance to torment TA poor family or rob the state of AZ ever again. The cross eyed man handed nasty ass bitch will DIE in a cage doing nothing but cleaning toilets the rest of her pathetic miserable monster life until the stupid bitch drops dead!! Unbelievable that there are people that exist on this planet as fucking stupid as a parasite arias supporter!! You fucking idiots are only making bigger asses out of yourselves and exposing how fucking ignorant you all are to the world!! The fucked up bitch will die in a cage without ever seeing any form of freedom ever again you fucking dumb asses!! Hey duh why the fuck are you soo damn fucking stupid for?

    1. Wow, do you kiss your mother with that mouth? Actually, you are wrong. That’s not the way the law works. People get new trials all the time. It’s only a matter of was there an error in the trial that could have changed the verdict? I believe Jodi Arias could get a new trial. but I don’t think she can get a better result than Life in prison.

  15. I think if Jody takes her meds from POLICE STATION she would be a good example . Let’s give this scientific medical miracle a chance… I’m a sister and if Travis was my brother I could live with myself.. And go to movies with Jodi and to be cruel and unusual make Jodi share her goobers.. Meds are that helpful 😂And how about that Flores who made quick assumption in that horrific scene … he could use meds too .. How about we all examine THE USA changing constitution over this evil bitch!!! Got Jesus? Anyone Anyone? But always pray to GOD he is the father.✝

  16. And if Jodi wants a new trial- Is death penalty on table??? Isn’t that the best question to ask why the TRIAL wasn’t fair? Or would Juan ( too cute ) not really want to date Jodi or Alice..LOL

  17. You all say your “hearts broke for Jodi” during the trial. For WHAT!?!! Because she was “defending herself”? I’m sure she was. That’s why right after she brutally murdered this man, she ran off and made out with another one. You know, because she was SO DISTRAUGHT over having to defend her life (eye roll). If you are truly defending yourself, you incapacitate and run like hell! You don’t stab 30 times, slit the throat, shoot with a gun, then hide the gun and then run to another man’s house for a hot makeout session. WHAT THE HELL PEOPLE ?

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